We're going to send I-5 traffic back the the 101!
From the NCTimes:
There will be a fight over plans to expand Interstate 5.
That much was clear last week when roughly 50 coastal residents and several land use attorneys united in Del Mar to outline their efforts to block the planned widening of I-5 from Oceanside to La Jolla.
Transportation officials say the multibillion-dollar expansion ---- which would add up to four carpool lanes ---- is needed to alleviate I-5's traffic crunch. Opponents say it would invite even more congestion.
"We have the experience and we will be going after every (legal) hook we can ... to try to stop this," said Marco Gonzalez, an environmental attorney and cofounder of the Encinitas-based Coast Law Group...
HOW DOES THIS GUY MAKE MONEY.
ReplyDeleteIs there cash in fighting fireworks?
Is there cash in fighting against reliable drinking water?
Is there cash in shilling for a clean water tax that no one wanted?
Is there cash in routing I-5 traffic through my town?
How do I follow the money????
His battle plan. Lets put a high speed train down the coast instead of adding cars to the freeway. Is he nuts? That approach has been tried and it doesn't relieve traffic. No connections at the ends of the train lines so you still need a car.
ReplyDeleteExpand the freeway.
FUCK OFF!!
ReplyDeleteHe's just another lawyer trying to make a name for himself. Too bad his other lawyers that work with him have to take the heat. Since he is Encinitas maybe he will work for us one day.
ReplyDeleteA bullet train down the 101 is a good idea. JUST BURY IT!!!!!
ReplyDeleteHis sister is an interesting case study. She has helped San Diego dig itself into a black hole financialy. Unions baby!
ReplyDeleteNice suit! They are doing some amazing things these days with polyester.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the problem?
ReplyDeleteputting a bullet train or the Coaster in the middle of I5 makes common sense.
ReplyDeleteMove the Coaster to the I5 corridor and get it away from the beach.
A train near the beach is bad planning.
push all the traffic towards I15
ReplyDeleteCoaster along I-5, connecting to trolley down El Camino Real. Keep I-5 as it is to discourage further growth, make new developers pay for infrastructure to support their money making. Higher density where jobs are - sorrento valley, downtown, etc.
ReplyDelete"Keep I-5 as it is to discourage further growth, "
ReplyDeleteExplain how that would work.
Hey Guys - I'm more than happy to meet with any one of you (or all of you) commenting on this blog to explain my (or my clients') positions on issues that show up in the press. I'd also be willing to discuss my firm, our business model, and answer just about any other questions you want to throw at me.
ReplyDeleteBut really, if you're all just going to be a bunch of pussies hiding behind anonymous postings....well, I hope the senseless ranting does something to appease your belief that you've done anything meaningful for the community in which you live.
You know where to find me.
-Marco
Marco--
ReplyDeleteHow much will our visit cost per hour?
Marco, how did you get a ground floor law office in downtown Enicnitas when the city has an ordinance requiring retail??
ReplyDeleteAnd you shouldn't worry about who we are, you should focus on the message of the postings!!
"Members of PLAGUE, however, say public transit and not more freeway lanes is the best way to ease congestion."
ReplyDeleteI'd like to ask how many members of PLAGUE pay for monthly Coaster passes from NCTD right now?
Since we are living in times when public transportation is hurting for money and being downsized in North County i.e. firing people, cutting out bus routes, less stops, subbing routes to other bus firms etc. I find it odd anyone extolling public transportation as a reliable solution for traffic congestion. That sounds like a bad sequel to the billion dollar "Sprinter" mistake.
One speaker at city hall once said that trains are not only a 200 year old mode of transportation, but are designed to do one thing. "Pick you up from where you're not coming from, and take you to where you're not going to". That's still the case for sure. I also think the Sprinter was a colossal waste of money, creating LESS stops between Oside and Escondido, commuting less frequently, creating more bus transfers for commuters. while only shaving 5 min off the entire trip.
I can't imagine anyone on the coast wanting more spill over traffic from I-5, and I believe that's inevitable if we don't widen 5.
The NTC article says that PLAGUE has raised $17,000 to fight the idea of adding 4 CARPOOL / HIGH OCCUPANCY lanes. Good luck fighting Caltrans and the wishes of the people with that amount.
ReplyDeleteCarpool lanes save time, gas, etc.
Marco has a client who appearantly has $17,000 so let him make a living. Otherwise he would be working slip and fall cases.
Check out the website for the group that hired Marco. Here it is:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.i-5plague.com/
There's some great animation of the proposed southbound 5 to eastbound 56 connection. I'm not sure why the current configuration was ever approved, but I suspect it was budgetary.
Marco, you might advise your clients to put some information on their website that explains what they consider the alternative to widening the 5. I realize you're a lawyer and not a PR firm, but trying to shape the conversation might help for fundraising and membership.
And calling out the many Anonymous flamers here won't do you much good either.
If simply widening the I-5 is a valid solution, when does the widening stop? When we get to 12 lanes in each direction? 20 lanes? At some point, WE are going to have to find an alternative to simply packing more cars on the freeway. Why not now? More concrete, more freeway noise and more smog are cop-outs. The suggestion that Marco is somehow proposing more cars on Highway 101 is baseless. Clearly he is proposing more and better rail alternatives. Take him up on his offer to chat and perhaps you'll learn something.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW466xcM0Yk
ReplyDelete"If simply widening the I-5 is a valid solution, when does the widening stop?"
ReplyDeleteThe day we are built out. It's not a road or car problem, it's a saturation of people problem. Everything else is a bandaid.
Fred is absolutely correct.
ReplyDeleteIt is all about the zoning density of San Diego county. Higher density makes more traffic.
Higher density in Ponto, higher density in downtown Carlsbad, higher density in Oceanside mean more traffic through Encinitas.
Roundabouts are only a panacea band-aid. If you care about Leucadia you will start paying attention to zoning issues in neighboring cities.
The greatest con of all time is the new urbanism movement.
If only Bob were still around.
I agree with Bagas and Marco... I don't want LA style of freeways.. it justs promotes more urban sprawl. Let the people that commute 100 miles to work, sit an extra 10 minutes in traffic or move closer to work. The fricken freeway is wide and LOUD enough!!!!
ReplyDeleteFRICKEN TRUTH--
ReplyDeleteBagas and Marco need to tell us what they're for and not just bust out the NIMBY stuff. Look at the PLAGUE mission statement which says, in part:
"P.L.A.G.U.E. is a community action group that opposes Caltrans' (State of California) from turning San Diego into a Los Angeles-like concrete jungle."
I like to kick LA around as much as the next guy, but what's the solution if not what CalTrans plans?
everyone except Fred got called out by Marco.
ReplyDeleteMarco is so right and Fred, you should be citizen of the year. Everyone else is a puss.
I like the idea of improving our freeways. When you drive from San Diego to Los Angeles, the best part of the drive is Orange County, where they have updated their freeway system.
ReplyDeleteAJ- The solution is leave it as is.....
ReplyDeleteWould you like to live next to the I5/805 after they widened that nightmare to 20 lanes?..... It now sounds like a jetliner at full throttle all the time.
that part of the freeway looks and sounds like concrete nightmare.
No thanks I don't want that kind of nightmare and noise coming up the coast. I support PLAGUE efforts.
"When you drive from San Diego to Los Angeles, the best part of the drive is Orange County, where they have updated their freeway system."
ReplyDeleteNo. Not Even. The best part is camp pendleton. The worst part is when you leave camp pendleton and enter LA proper. Everything north of Pendleton is LA and sucks.
If we don't want a wider freeway, we have to restrict the number and/or size of new homes we will allow to be built. Immediately.
ReplyDeleteThe other problem is that a resident diet restricts a property owner's right to build what they want to build. And today more than ever, they want to build as much as they possibly can within the square footage they have.
I think Marco's group would better be focused on curtailing the cause of freeway congestion, not a remedy for the symptom. I agree that PLAGUE is not offering any solutions to the coming 2025 crunch of congestion on 5. The suggestion of public transportation being the answer is a nice dream, but wouldn't pencil out in reality. The Coaster (that only takes an hour from Oside to downtown SD) already handles ALL who are interested in using semi-efficient North/South public transportation and many times it's cars are far from sufficiently occupied. And if you want to talk strain on the economy, do I really have to go into how much of each ticket is subsidized by the government? In everything I've ever read it's staggering, like 50% or more.
The good news is, I may have the perfect solution. The bad news is, PLAGUE won't want to part with $10K to find out.
FRICKEN TRUTH--
ReplyDeleteThe 5s-56e and 56w-5n transition needs the work in the animation at the PLAGUE website, though my guess is that is their biggest beef (since the money came from Del Martians). And the CalTrans plans include improving the Manchester and Encinitas Blvd. ramps, as well as the McKinnon bridge.
Is PLAGUE for this or against it? They're too vague.
The Coaster is packed every morning going south. It is at capacity.
ReplyDeleteI guess they could add more cars, but the current configuration is maxed out.
One thing that would be nice, if there are changes is that it go to the SD airport, like every other city in the world.
The PLAGUE is San Diegans not Del Martians... they live in the City of San Diego, but wish and call themselves Del Martians. Its like a crack head calling themselves a diet success story.
ReplyDeleteI like the fights that Marco Gonzalez espouses.
ReplyDeleteOne more lane on the 5 and call it done. The section the 5 with 14-20(?) lanes at the Merge is horrible.
Seems we all forgot that traffic went down when gas went up. It will happen again. That's when we'll wish we had more frequent services and lower fares for trains. I still wish there was an express train from Solana to downtown San Diego.
I'd rather see subsidies for trains than freeways. And, I live by the train tracks.
Anon 7:11--
ReplyDeleteI sit corrected. Good point. That's a little like someone from New Encinitas claiming to be Qualudian.
The Coaster is such a success that ridership is down 26.5% in the last year.
ReplyDeleteAnon 9:06--
ReplyDeleteYou illustrate the saying about there being lies, damn lies and statistics.
You've tossed out the nice round number of 26.5% (a city employee reading this blog on our dime?). Is that based upon absolute ridership numbers or does it take into account the adjustments in the schedule made over the last year? And do you think any decline might have been the result of the increase in unemployment?
The Coaster needs many improvements but whether it is successful or not shouldn't be determined by the ridership from one year to the next. Make it better and the riders will climb aboard.
Maybe PLAGUE will end up being the group that can organize several different ideas and mobilize political support to see them implemented. I don't think their NO! NO! NO! NIMBY! start is so great, but it's early yet.
Then there's badass Marco coming on the blog calling out the Anonymous bunch that huddles here under the bridge.
A couple points:
ReplyDelete1. I can't believe I agree with Fred on this issue or any issue.
2. This group(PLAGUE), if you followed it, are the people that will be affected by the I-5 56 interchange. That fight was a loser for them so they are casting a wider net so we won't focus on their one issue.
3. Trains don't move people here because they are to inconvenient. How many times have you wanted to go to San Diego for dinner and figured out that if you do you can't get home via train. If you want to use it for work you need to work right next to a train stop.
4. Marco is a typical attorney and the reason our state is going down in flames. To many attorneys.
5. Fred has the right alternatives. Stop building until we have roads and water.
AJ- Or as Marco would call you- Pussy-
ReplyDeleteYou realize that you are a part of the anon bunch right?
Anon 11:56--
ReplyDeleteNo shit? Fuck him, and you too.
I AM NOT A PUSSY
ReplyDeleteI am anon or AJ which stands for anonymous joy!
ReplyDeleteFred is right. SANDAG is predicting another 1 million people in San Diego County by 2050. And they are planning for it with our tax money. They call it smart growth. It's increased density, especially in the coastal zone. They are also planning a "Quality of Life" tax to pay for all the damage they are doing. I call it insanity.
ReplyDeleteAnybody checked SANDAG's models? I'm pretty sure their models do not predict that keeping I5 congested blunts population growth.
ReplyDeleteMarco was willing to enter the Leucadia blog, called out the ANON gallery and yet still sounds willing talk. Credit to Marco.
K.C.--
ReplyDeleteI will credit Marco when he answers some of the direct questions that have been posed here, in writing. He calls the anonymous and pseudonymous questions on this thread "senseless rantings", but that's bullshit. Of course, the hard part is answering. Coming on here and calling people pussies is easy, you doosh bag.
His group is clearly nothing but NIMBY's. I'm surprised Marco didn't advise them to come up with some--dare I say concrete?--plans, before popping off. Same goes for him.
I don't have a comprehensive plan, but I am for putting the money more public transport before widening the freeway. The reason our public transport doesn't work is because there isn't enough of it. It is true that right now the trains go from where I'm not to where I don't want to go. Add more light rail and busses to make it convenient. Start by running the Coaster on Sundays so I can take it to and from the airport occasionally. Mass transit works in plenty of cities.
ReplyDeleteCredit is for sticking his name on it.
ReplyDeleteBart,
I am working on putting on a forum to help address the issue you bring up. How much light rail and how many bus routes would we need to add to Encinitas to make it reach the level that you would identify as being convenient? Where would we add the bus and rail lines and how frequently would they need to run?
KC,
ReplyDeleteI find it amusing that you say "credit to Marco" for calling us "pussies". He is a lawyer, and that is not "professional", in my book.
Anon
"I don't have a comprehensive plan, but I am for putting the money more public transport before widening the freeway. The reason our public transport doesn't work is because there isn't enough of it."
ReplyDeleteThat's like saying "the reason the basketball court at the senior center is always empty is because they're aren't enough basketball courts."
As an advocate and user of public transportation for many years locally, I wholly disagree. We saw what throwing over 20K at a new local bus did for Encintias last summer. Almost everyone I talked to said the same thing: "I think it's a great idea, but I'll never use it." and "I think it's a great idea. I'd like to just ride it around town once just to support it."
What possesses people into thinking losing $18K for Encinitas is beneficial? I love idealistic people, and new ideas. But when they don't pan out like the Sprinter etc. and people think a faster train would solve crushing population problems, I gotta cringe. Once again, people refuse to address what the actual problem is. With all of it's shortcomings, we still have a tremendous public transportation system in North County along the coast. Does anyone know how many public basketball courts we have?
K.C.
"how many bus routes would we need to add to Encinitas to make it reach the level that you would identify as being convenient?"
In defense of NCTD (imagine that), the 101 bus daily runs from the pre-dawn wee hours of the morning till late each evening, every half hour, both ways from Oside to La Jolla and back, with voluminous east/west routes/connections. If you didn't already know that, check it out for yourself: http://gonctd.com/html_breeze_routes/101.htm
But I think Kevin's question is valid, and I too would like to hear Bart's expensive answer.
6:15 is right about a Coaster stop near the airport (seeing that the runway is only one block from the tracks at Laurel St., yet is currently 15 blocks from the last Coaster stop.) That makes tons of sense to me. (but the Taxi union would probably extinguish the notion of a simple shuttle to a Coaster stop at Laurel St.)
Besides, 4 more lanes on the fwy will vastly aid emergency evacuations with more avenues of escape for those of us on the coast with the coming wrath of Nibiru and such. Will a faster train help evacuate anyone at all? Very little, but only when one fearless engineer dared make round trips here to any disaster.
9:42,
Yeah, I think "scaredy cats" would have done.
One of my sister's lawyers called her prosecutor and arresting officer "butt-buddies". That didn't help polish his reputation to judge David Gill, nor aid my sister's future.
ReplyDeleteFred-
ReplyDeleteI heard it resulted in a stinky mess in the end.
How many commenters come on the blog and write with strong and unprofessional language and then don't even sign with a screen name, much less their real name.
ReplyDeleteHow many people comment with professional and cordial language but take a strong stand and aren't willing to post their name? Some have told me they have concerns about their name being associated with their views.
If you've been following for a while you'll know that I'm not real excited about some of the etiquette meltdowns that occur here (click my name).
Now that I think about it: Marco's comment makes him guilty of what?
1)Using mildly foul language, which is nowhere near the edge of this blog’s social norms?
2) Saying ANON commenters are cowards?
3) Being abrasive?
Not addressing some of the questions is a solid gripe, however Marco left the door wide open. When I get the time I'm going to ask him about the use of Eminent Domain on this project and a couple other things. Give us three questions and we'll toss those in when we talk to Marco.
Marco is for the Swamis contest.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe that....
ReplyDeleteQuestion for KC to Marco, Are you for or against contests at Swamis?
"If you've been following for a while you'll know that I'm not real excited about some of the etiquette meltdowns that occur here (click my name)."
ReplyDeleteTo moderate, or not to moderate, that is the question. Another question is: did George Carlin enjoy his night in jail? Three times words on his list of seven show up in this thread (pussy isn't on it). Big f'in' deal (edited for your sensibilities).
Marco is the lead attorney for a group that is mostly opposed to keeping the 5/56 interchange from being completed. They bought homes with a major interstate freeway in their back yard and a state route that had been in the plans since 1964, and now they want to fight to keep it from being completed. It appears they decided to throw their issue in with the north county widening issue in order to raise some money. Pretty slick.
I have appreciated some of the fights Marco has picked; this PLAGUE thing isn't one of them. And his beef with us anon/pseudonymous posters is laughable. Here's what it reminds me of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTkgAL-bxVY
Here's how that one sentence should read:
ReplyDeleteMarco is the lead attorney for a group that is trying to keep the 5/56 interchange from being completed.
AJ,
ReplyDeleteRight on! That interchange is most lame. I say "fix it".
Look, there is no magic bullet here - we have to update our freeways for cars and update our mass transit, like trains (but please bury the train tracks through Leucadia). I would take the train to the airport, if it went there!
Electric cars are coming that will cut down on pollution, especially if they are powered by solar power. They will need space on the freeways.
Don't fall for fear tactics or simple solutions. And keep I5 traffic on I5!
Fred, your point about spending $20k on one bus is exactly right - it won't help. Neither will $100k for 5 busses (by the way, those seem like cheap busses). However, this article is about spending $billions on expanding I-5 from O'side to the 56. Spending $billions on mass transit has the potential for a greater benefit than a larger slab of concrete.
ReplyDeleteI am not an expert on mass transit so any specific ideas I have may be completely wrong, but I have been in plenty of cities where a car is unnecessary so I know it can be done.
You have to do something to get people willing to try public transport. Start by connecting the airport. If the easiest and quickest way to the airport is by public transport people will take it. The same goes for the ball games. The Coaster/Trolley connection to Padres games is great, but the schedule is too limited - especially on Sundays.
Get the kids on the busses. If kids take public busses to school (through high school) they will not look at the bus as something that loosers ride. No matter how good public transportation is, you won't get people on it who grew up thinking they are too good for it. And if the bus routes are good enough to get kids to school on time they will probably be good enough to get people to the grocery store, the beach, the mall, or the rail stop to get them longer distances to work.
My wife and I have lived in London and Shanghai where we didn't own a car. We lived in Chicago where we shared a car and rarely used it. We live in Encinitas and we have 2 and that sucks. We can do better.
Nice post Bart. By the way, is Bart your real name?
ReplyDeleteI'm not an expert on mass transit either, but I think you pretty much nailed it. Create an integrated public system that moves people around the county more effectively and people would use it.
One way to change attitudes about public transit would be to pay for it with a hefty gasoline tax. Then forget about collecting fares, which cause people to stop and think "is it a good deal" to take the bus or train. More people might be inclined to say to themselves, "I pay for it, I might as well use it."
When I lived in a big mid-western city, I would ride with the white-collar workers from the suburbs into the downtown area. Most of the people from my neighborhood flashed their monthly discount passes when they got on. The closer we got to downtown, the more frequently low-income riders would board and scrounge their pockets for the full fare. This seemed a little backwards to me.
Bart,
ReplyDeleteYou've tried public transportation so why do you think that people just have to try it?
People drive because it is saves time and effort not because they are brainwashed by mass media and the oil companies.
A.J. - Bart is my real name and my e-mail address viewable on my profile.
ReplyDeleteI think that your proposal for putting gas taxes toward mass transit is exactly what we are debating here. Those Federal dollars that may be used to widen I-5 could just as easily be used for mass transit. I don't think we should tax personal vehicles off the road, but we could use the money to make mass transit more compelling.
Anon 6:07 - I don't want to get rid of I-5 or take your car away. I also don't think that trying today's mass transit will convince anyone. What I want is an option for those who do the same commute every day or for standard routes like shopping or the beach. We can take these billions of dollars and add lanes to I-5 or we can put more people in one vehicle on the same road and become more efficient. As I said before, I know it works because I have seen it in other cities.
"Make it better and the riders will climb aboard." is the message PLAGUE claims.
ReplyDeleteShort of some new propulsion system, I don't see how public transport can be much better here in San Diego, (except for perhaps better airport access). We're too spread out in this county to make everyone happy with public transportation, and I think the transit districts do all they can as it is (which is a hell of a lot).
Wikipedia sheds some light on this.
"For historical and economic reasons, there are differences internationally regarding use and extent of public transport. While countries in Old World tend to have extensive and frequent systems serving their old and dense cities, most cities of the New World have more sprawl and much less comprehensive public transport."
No wonder cars aren't needed in Shanghai or London. North County's topography is way different. Especially when there is no end in sight continuing to create more sprawl locally.
Here once again, no one promoting public transportation dares to mention the real cause and exacerbation of traffic congestion. Maybe a ceiling on developments would be a conflict for them.
"One way to change attitudes about public transit would be to pay for it with a hefty gasoline tax."
By punishing drivers it will make them appreciate public transportation? You lost me on that one.
6:41
ReplyDeleteYou heard right, Punsy McHale.
Fred--
ReplyDeleteI suppose the transit districts do deserve some credit for the little bit of people-moving they do, especially given the budgetary short-shrift they get for operations. (And the revised budget proposals coming out of Sacto promise to make matters much worse.) The reality is that if the funding picture doesn't change, you're right, the system will forever suck.
But I disagree that some new form of propulsion is needed in order to make it more attractive to enough riders to mitigate some of the traffic issues. Three legs of a decent system are in place: the Coaster, the Sprinter and the Trolley. The missing leg is something that runs in the 15 corridor. The new HOV lanes on that interstate are likely to make buses a short-term solution.
Obviously, the people that live on Lone Jack Road, among many other streets in Encinitas, will never be able to leave their car parked. But I do think that a decent public transit system would make it likely that a trip to San Diego would start by driving to the Coaster station. But to get to that point takes schedules that are regular for at least 18 hours a day.
What would it take for a concierge at a downtown hotel to recommend a trip to the north county on the Coaster? Wouldn't Moonlight Beach be a prime destination for tourists if they could conveniently ride public transportation fro and to their hotel? Not many visitors are willing to brave the joke we have for public transit.
You suggest that an increased gasoline tax would be punitive, and obviously you are not alone in that opinion. But how else would you propose to pay for a public transportation system that really works? You seem to be suggesting that we should quit trying, that it is what it is. I disagree and think that even we San Diegans could learn to use a public transit system that is reliable and regular. The only way to do that will be with increased funding. So where do you think that money should come from?
Your argument for putting a "ceiling" on development is one I sympathize with, but the 5th amendment of the constitution makes it hard to do. Our tool for trying to minimize the impact of development are zoning laws and a few other government requirements. It might be possible to tie development with the lack of water, but to try and connect it to too many cars will be a tough sell to the courts when a private property owner sues. (Ask Marco.) So we either widen the roads or improve public transit, or maybe a little of both. But PLAGUE's approach, which seems to be no! no! no!, will never work.
Fred - To your first two points, I would never expect public transportation to make everyone happy. It only needs to be good enough to move more people on the same roads that we currently have. Widening I-5 won't do that because all those additional people aren't going to just magically appear on I-5. There are going to be 30+ more homes where the greenhouses are at the North end of Hymettus. 30+ more will replace the greenhouses on Urania near Normandy. As those areas fill in, people will be calling for widening Leucadia Blvd. to 101 and widen 101 while we're at it. I don't think that public transportation is the magic bullet and it may not solve the congestion, but I can guarantee that widening I-5 will add to congestion on surface streets.
ReplyDeleteTo your third point, I didn't know that we were allowed to pick door number 3 and cap development. Sign me up for that. Can we still have the federal highway money in this version of the universe?
Finally, I wouldn't raise taxes to pay for more public transportation. If the conversation hadn't started because billions of dollars are going to be thrown at I-5 you never would have heard from me. Since I have and will continue to pay my fair share of income and gas taxes I felt like I should give my opinion on how it should be spent.
This debate could go on forever, so if you care to respond the last word is yours.
"You seem to be suggesting that we should quit trying, that it is what it is."
ReplyDeleteNo. I just think a wider freeway addresses our current and increasing gridlock dilemma much better. Neither do I believe that wider freeways create sprawl. In comparison with old world cities that have excellent subway systems (150 years old) and very tall buildings, businesses and residents are layered there much differently than here. I suppose if they lowered all the buildings in London and spread them out evenly, London's surface area would be ten times larger and they'd have worse public transportation problems than we do here.
"Your argument for putting a "ceiling" on development is one I sympathize with, but the 5th amendment of the constitution makes it hard to do." No doubt. That still doesn't mean it's one of the few alternatives. There are moratoriums, and zoning laws that curtail development. But of course those avenues are all a wash with things like SB1818 the recent density bonus law in CA.
"I don't think that public transportation is the magic bullet and it may not solve the congestion, but I can guarantee that widening I-5 will add to congestion on surface streets."
Widening I5 will not put more cars on surface streets. Two other things will:
1. Not widening 5.
2. More sprawl.
That stuff said, we can agree to disagree and get on with our lives! But thanks for the last word anyway.
so Bart AJ you want our city and county to resemble Shanghai, Hong Kong, Chicago, New York and other big cities with mass transit. I for one live here because I don't want to live in densely populated cities. I have had my fill of them. If you like them so much move back and leave the rest of us alone in our blissful ignorance of a terrible place to live because we don't have mass transit like Shanghai and/or Chicago.
ReplyDeleteI said I had made my last post on this thread, but I guess I need one more.
ReplyDeleteTo Anon 7:07am - do you really believe that you don't live in San Diego, a city with a population of just over 3 million people (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06073.html)? Every big city has its own version of Leucadia where people love to live because of the small town feel of community. They also love it because they aren't 50 miles from the next town and they can get the goods and services not offered in their town by going 5 miles from home. You do live in a big city like Chicago and London. I will give it to you that it is not like Shanghai and Hong Kong. I haven't been to New York so I can't comment on that.
"But really, if you're all just going to be a bunch of pussies hiding behind anonymous postings....well, I hope the senseless ranting does something to appease your belief that you've done anything meaningful for the community in which you live."--Marco
ReplyDelete"do you really believe that you don't live in San Diego, a city with a population of just over 3 million people"
ReplyDeleteThere are big differences.
We live in coastal North San Diego County and not the city of San Diego. Ours is the only geographical area PLAGUE and this thread are focused on. Del Mar / La Jolla is where we're drawing the line here with widening the freeway (with a few feet of it probably reaching into San Diego proper). Encinitas incorporated for the most part to be free of San Diego County's over development of our neighborhoods. San Diego has a Metropolitan Transit System. We have North County Transit District. There are plenty of differences. The danger we have in common with SD is gridlock. Which again boils down to two sides of the fence.
1. That widening 5 will greatly relieve congestion in the coming years. or
2. Improving North County Transit District and training our children to take public transportation will free the next million people from the slavery of cars.
I can't buy number 2 for reasons I've already said.
Can anybody honestly say that the I5 is not a better drive since they added the extra lanes through DelMar and Solana Beach? How about the new dedicated onramp lane for the Manchester southbound? Could someone please explain how finishing the planned lane extensions through Encinitas and Carlsbad won't help even more?
ReplyDelete"San Diego has a Metropolitan Transit System. We have North County Transit District. There are plenty of differences."
ReplyDeleteNot really Fred. The only thing different are the names. Their mission is identical: transport people to where they need to be in the county. Incorporation wasn't meant to create impediments to urban planning, but it does seem to work that way in most metropolitan areas. Good ol' fashion turf wars.
I agree with Anonymous that the work done so far on the 5 through Del Mar and Solana Beach has made a difference. I look forward to some similar work being completed through Encinitas, especially by adding the clover leafs and road alignment at Encinitas Blvd., much like that done at Lomas Santa Fe Drive.
But I don't think we should make transportation decisions in a vacuum. It would be wise to improve mass transit while also improving the freeway system. Adding lanes is not the only method for mitigating the traffic congestion that plagues our community.
I also think it is clear that the PLAGUE organization is really all about stopping the completion of the 5/56 transition work and are trying to suck the rest of north county in to try and raise money. Their issue is classic NIMBYism and is not in the best interest of drivers from our community that have to travel to Rancho Bernardo daily for work.
"Incorporation wasn't meant to create impediments to urban planning,"
ReplyDeleteYou aren't familiar with the champions of Encinitas' incorporation, are you?
Re/ differences in transit systems.
"Not really Fred. The only thing different are the names. Their mission is identical: transport people to where they need to be in the county."
Of course their aim is the same, but they are two seperate entities funded seperately and many times they do not honor each other's transfers. Not totally compatible.
"I agree with Anonymous that the work done so far on the 5 through Del Mar and Solana Beach has made a difference. I look forward to some similar work being completed through Encinitas,"
me too.
"I also think it is clear that the PLAGUE organization is really all about stopping the completion of the 5/56 transition work and are trying to suck the rest of north county in to try and raise money. Their issue is classic NIMBYism and is not in the best interest of drivers from our community that have to travel to Rancho Bernardo daily for work."
me three
I agree with AJ and Fred - let's update and modernize our freeway. I5 was built in 1965 through Encinitas (and designed even earlier). The recent upgrades to I5 have been well done, well designed, and with new drought tolerant landscaping. Let's keep doing that to alleive congestion.
ReplyDeleteAnd while I dont' use the I5 to 56 connection, that needs to be fixed. What a joke it is now! Let's not some NIMBY's in Del Mar stop something that they knew about when they bought their homes.
And yes, let's upgrade our mass transit also. The Coaster is overcrowded now, because they took off some cars to save money. If they added cars, ridership would go up. And, of course, it should go to the airport!
One more thing...
ReplyDeleteI just heard on the radio last night that San Francisco's "BART" transit is looking to expand in one direction. The cost: a half billion dollars. Are locals up in arms? Yes. Why? Because the new train will
* eliminate existing buses and stops
* create more transfers for people (costing them more time)
* cost more money. Currenty a $6 round trip in the area will cost $12 with the new train.
Middle to low income people are saying it's aimed toward making it convenient for the rich and will create more hardship for them. I agree. I also agree that it mirrors what the Sprinter did for North County.