A private company is proposing to provide $16,000 worth of doggie waste collection bags for free each year to Encinitas parks and trails, if the city will allow advertising on the bag distribution posts.
The proposal, which the City Council is scheduled to debate at its Wednesday night meeting, could mark the first time that permanent advertising is allowed in an Encinitas city park, said Jim O'Grady, the city's interim parks and recreation director.
"This is kind of uncharted territory for us, but the signs are going to be fairly small," he said Monday.
The city has allowed sponsor signs at special events in the parks, but those haven't been permanent advertisements, O'Grady said.
The city is spending about $16,000 a year on its "Mutt Mitt" waste disposal bags, which are distributed for free at 19 locations within city parks and along city trails, a city staff report states. By giving away biodegradable bags, the city hopes to encourage pet owners to be responsible and to keep the parks tidy. See NCTimes.
A few years ago the Leucadia blog came out hard on the use of public park resources without holding an open process, where others could compete for the exclusive use of park space. We also warned against giving out contracts that provide the city or the public the "net revenues" without that number being explicitly defined and audited. Looks like the city of Encinitas is not into the competitive part of managed competition.
Is Ms. O'Grady really going to spend $16,000 on doggie mitts?
Somebody do the math on this. How many doggie land mines is that a year? How many trash cans is that. How many poos per dog use hour is that!
The answer is quite simple and here are the factors needed for the equation:
ReplyDeleteThere are
a: .4 dogs per household in the city of encinitas.
b: Of 20,000 homes that comes to approximately 8,000 dogs pooping every day multiple times.
c: About 74% of them are taken for walks most days of the week. While 26% remain in the boundaries of their home.
d: Of the 74% of the dogs that are walked, about 34% get their poop collected by their conciencious owners. The remaining dogs shit at Orpheus Park, Beacon's Beach, and my front yard.
If the taxpayers want to pay $1.25 everytime a dog owner at a park grabs a doggie bag that costs 4 cents, keep the status quo. Why pay someone 16 K a year that we can get for free at the visual expense of a small ad? Let's not forget that their fee will increase to 32 K when the Hall park is finished.
http://www.amazon.com/960-Biodegradable-Waste-Bags-Pet/dp/B001EE5LEQ
ReplyDeleteThis item went before the Parks and Rec. Commission first. At that time the name of the company was Crappy Advertising. I guess that they changed it. It is only their first year in business and I personally thought the signs with the ads were too big. So, I voted against it. I was the lone dissenting vote, however, so it was sent to Council. I understand Winston's point of view, but in my opinion if we allow this company to have exclusive rights to the advertising it allows others to buy signage in other parts of the City. Perhaps we can have billboards to pay for the Park; or we can just name something for a person or company that puts up enough money. I see this as "sign blight" and cannot help but wonder if it is worth it. I have nothing against this advertising company. I just don't like selling out our city to the highest bidder. Or in this case, only one bidder, who may not make it. Obviously I was in the minority at the Commission level and it will probably get passed at the Council level.
ReplyDelete"if we allow this company to have exclusive rights to the advertising it allows others to buy signage in other parts of the City."
ReplyDeleteHow big were the signs, Doc? Frankly, I believe just because we let this one idea happen with ads, it doesn't set a percedent that we have to allow it anywhere else.
The first thing after incorporation the city did was remove bus benches we had with ads on them. The city got thousands of dollars or the ads. Now we have nuclear proof cold ones with no advertising - except for all the billboards at the transit center of course. Oh yeah, and we also have less bus benches than we used to have. Some guerillas have replaced a few with the lovely plastic chairs chained to poles.
Lastly, I kind of like the Crappy Advertising name. It fits.
Is there really that much dog poo?
ReplyDeleteAre you blind?
@ Dr. Lorri,
ReplyDeleteWhy won't you answer the question about the city hiding the fire department misconduct documentation?
What do you call it when the city withholds documentation of misconduct from the public?
Winston: Point well taken, however those were different times. We actually had money in the City. However, this is not the only company looking to do signage. There is another organization that also got passed thru the Parks and Rec. Commission called the Patrons of Encinitas Parks. They also want to sell signage for the new park, to the highest bidder. Interestingly Kristin Gaspar used to be on their Board of Directors, although she is not at this time. However, the person that presented their proposal, when asked who was on their board, was a bit evasive about it, and never mentioned her name. I hope she recuses herself. They wanted exclusive rights for their organization, and naming, which they did back down on, at least at the Commission level. However, when asked who were some of the patrons, they responded by saying something about when you are playing poker you hold your cards tight. Perhaps you poker players know what that means. The only name mentioned was Ecke. The sign for the Crappy Advertising was large enough to fit 6 vendors if I am not mistaken. I honestly do not remember how large it was, although they did show us a mock up and they did state how large it was. I can look thru my minutes of the meeting to find out exactly how large it was. They seemed like nice people, but they only had a few other cities in Calif., as they are only a year old. I wish them well, as both of the owners seemed nice. If this is what the City wants, I really don't care. I just think it if we are going to have signage, let's bid it out and not let one organization have it. It would also be nice to know what vendors are going to be on the sign. That would be a more fair and transparent way, IMHO.
ReplyDeleteStarman: What do you call it when someone continues to ask the very same question over and over and the person to whom they are asking says " I don't know."? I have not seen the documentation that Cummins and Meiche have. Perhaps when they are finished looking and analyzing it, they will post it and you will have your answer. You can also go to City Hall and pay $15.00 and get your own answers. I honestly do not know what they are referring to. When I mentioned that I thought they wanted the names, I was told that wasn't it. So, I have no more answers than you do. Although I know that does not satisfy you, it is the only honest answer that I have. But you are welcome to keep asking. I will make you a deal. When I know something, I will post it. I truly suggest you ask the two people who have the documentation, Cummins and Meiche. They are the ones with the answers.
ReplyDeleteThe question was: Is there really that much dog poo?
ReplyDeleteSee the videos below documenting the unattended collection of dog poop at Orpheus Park.
http://www.theleucadiablog.com/2010/01/lets-count-dog-poop-at-orpheus-park.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVuwf5f9N4g
This was last year... nothing has changed since. The conditions remain the same.
I attempted to get Dr Lorri (a commissioner for parks and rec) to comment on the conditions and wanted to know what her opinion was of the conditions.
She refused to comment and accused me of harassing her.
It can only be assumed that the commission and the city feel that it is acceptable to expose park users to dog waste
@ Dr. Lorri,
ReplyDeleteYou didn't write "I don't know". You wrote I have special inside information from my good friend Mark Muir. You have the answers.
Dr. Lorri, "In the next few days, I will add more things about the L.A Fire Dept. , as well as a response from Chief Muir, with his permission." and then carried out an attack on Mieche and the LA fire department.
Then you wrote,
"When I read something that is not factual, I usually stand up and say something. This post is missing a large part of the truth."
You attacked Meiche and said you knew his concerns were untrue. Now you are changing your story and say you don't know anything.
Why are you changing your story?
Steve: Do you really think that is how it went down? WOW is all I can say. I did talk to you and shared that the Parks and Rec. Commission's task was to look at Glen Park and Hawk View, not Orpheus. We had no jurisdiction on that park. At the City Council meeting, Dan Dalager let you speak about Orpheus, even though it was not agendized. You wrote me some pretty nasty emails when I told you I could do nothing about Orpheus. Why are you spinning this story so completely away from the truth? I know you don't like me, and think I am a stooge for Mark Muir and the FD. I get that. But, please, at least tell the truth. You speak of transparency and now you come up with this? I am not exactly sure why you dislike me so much, but can we let it go? That was then and this is now. Whatever the City wants as far as advertising, I am completely cool with. I was just giving out information from the Parks and Rec. meeting and you bring up something that happened when Dalager was mayor. Can we please have a truce? It would be welcomed on my end.
ReplyDeleteHere is the link to Dr. Lorri's quotes:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.theleucadiablog.com/2011/03/firefighters-gone-wild.html
Ah Starman- This is good. There will be no further comment from me on the FD now that I know who you are.
ReplyDelete@ Dr. Lorri,
ReplyDeleteWhy do you need to read the reports before you answer? Is it true that the city refused to release the documents before Mieche hired an attorney?
Is that true or not? If they refused to release the documents no matter what is in the documents what do you call that?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhy won't you set the record straight? Why won't you answer the question?
ReplyDeleteStarman-I am no longer sure what the question is? Could you articulate it in a couple of sentences? As for "dog poo" as was this original post about, there was a General Plan meeting last night addressing public health issues. Perhaps I missed Kevin and Steve, but I did not see them there. There are 2 more for those interested And "dog poo" would certainly qualify as a public health concern for some. So, check the City's website and perhaps you can make the next 2 and give the consultants your input, as I did.
ReplyDeleteWell, I guess no truce today Starman. I certainly annot say I didn't try. BYW, when I receive the LAFD reports, I will then get the City of Encinitas FD reports and compare for myself. Perhaps I can make more sense of what you are speaking of then. I think the LAFD has 5 more days to give me my FOI request before they are in violation of the law. Now I have to go to work, so I will sign off. I am sure you feel nothing but pity for my poor patients.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI was also at the meeting. There is going to be another future meeting. Maybe by then you can answer.
ReplyDeleteDid the city first refuse to release the conduct reports to Mieche? If they did refuse why is that not a cover up? You wrote here on the blog that it was not a cover up. What was it then if it was not a cover up?
Dr. Lorri,
ReplyDeleteI agree, Kristin should recuse herself if this issue goes to a vote, but where does one draw the line? Everyone has their biases, and favorite people and we usually have them for reasons we believe are good. i.e. good for all. But assuming she would be pro-signage in a vote, I'd be right with her.
Do you remember the size of the signs proposed that you did not like in the past, or what size you would think appropriate IF the issue did pass?
How on earth is it an economic conflict of interest that Kristin WAS on the board?
ReplyDeleteDr Lorri,
ReplyDeleteThe FD reports that the city surrendered are incomplete at best but do reveal an alarming level of misconduct. You defended Muir and said "EFD did no wrong".
That is untrue and the documents prove that.
I will be glad to share the reports I have with you. I can mail them to you or better yet sit down with you to show you the severity of misconduct, the gaps and missing information.
Also, I don't hate you and I wish you would stop playing that card. You are a public figure, civic leader and public servant. You have a responsibility within the city's operations as a commissioner. I will hold you accountable as I would any other public servant. Asking you to comment on the poor condition of Orpheus park was not out of line when considering the expansion of dog use into new parks.
It was and is totally relevant.
Winston-I will look up the size of the signs when I have a moment today if possible. I have them in the minutes, which I don't have with me.
ReplyDeleteStarman: My apologies to you. I thought you were someone else, and I would noticed you at the meeting last night. When the blog went to non-anonymous, I kind of thought everyone would post their real names. Obviously I was naive on that one. But apologies anyway. You are not who I thought you were, and therefore I do owe you that.
Steve: Some points of difference. Commissioners are not paid, except the Planning Commission, therefore I am not held to the same standard as a Councilperson or a City employee. Second, I didn't know I was a servant, a public figure or a civic leader. I guess I should say thanks but I am not sure that any of those apply, so I will just say nothing.
ReplyDelete@ Dr. Lorri,
ReplyDeleteNo worries. You can make it up to me by answering the question.
Lorri,
ReplyDeleteYou SERVE as a commissioner and represent the public's interest on the commission. You were appointed through a process. You make recommendations that have long lasting effects on the future of the city.
You are a public servant, see the legal definition:
"Public servant" is an officer or employee of government or a quasi-public agency, as defined in section 1-120, elected or appointed, and any person participating as advisor, consultant or otherwise, paid or unpaid, in performing a governmental function.
I hope we have cleared that up and possibly you will have a clearer understanding of your responsibility as a commissioner.
The parks and recreation commission isn't part of the government. Even I know that. That's why they don't have to adhere to the Brown Act.
ReplyDeleteSteve Meiche comes off as a total drama queen. He obviously has a personal axe to grind with the FD and the Chief. He is attacking anyone who does not see it his way and that's why he won't post what he claims to have found. Steve is full of it, he just wants names and reputations to be ruined for his personal greivences against Chief Muir.
ReplyDeletePeople who don't pick up their pets waste are just as bad as those who leave their trash behind at the park or beach. As a family, not only do we pick up our pet's waste but I teach my kids that we can also pick up the poop that others do not. We pack out our trash and any other trash on the way out too. It's called stewardship people and we should all do it! You can bitch about it, point the finger and pass the buck or you can step up and do it and be part of the solution.
ReplyDeleteWhy not print the advertising on the bags. As for advertising in the city of Encinitas I think they should get rid of all of the bill boards. There are so many illegal signs, it seems as though code enforcement could pay for another employee if there were fines for illegal signs. If therte is a fine for illegal parking why can't there be a fine for illegal signs?
ReplyDeleteLL,
ReplyDeleteWhat are the examples of Meiche "attacking" anyone who disagrees? The only one attacking has been Lorri.
You can put an end to all this. If you don't believe Steve send an email to Jerome Stocks jstocks@encinitas.ca.us and ask him if those things happened. Kristin is close to the fire chief too so you can ask her too. Would you rather attack instead of finding out?
Chief Muir responds and is attacked by Steve. Dr Lori replies and is attacked by Steve. He has not backed up his accusations with any credible proof on this blog. Why wont he post what he has? Does anybody remember last October's theatrics at City Hall? I thought Steve was going to start crying like a little girl when he went after Dalager. TOTAL DRAMA QUEEN!
ReplyDeleteLL,
ReplyDeleteYou're defending Muir by comparing him to Dalager?
Meiche was right about Dalager. Dalager was overwhelmingly rejected by the voters and then pled guilty to avoid a trial on multiple corruption counts.
Meiche was one of many who spoke against corruption at City Hall that day, and he was absolutely right about every single thing he said.
Would you attack the Bell whistleblowers like you're attacking Steve Meiche?
I am not defending anybody. Just stating my take on this. That's apples and oranges to try to compare the two. I am not the one accusing here. Steve is. Whatever he has he should share with the rest of us on this blog. Don't be a hypocrite by sitting on information that only you have.
ReplyDeleteOh and by the way I am quite sure that I will be attacked for just having a different opinion than the rest of you who weekly attack somebody at the city or anyone who doesn't serve your agenda.
ReplyDeleteLL
ReplyDeleteI'm still in the process of putting together a summary of my findings. I had an retired internal affairs investigator review the documents for their completeness. It took a little longer for him to get back to me than I expected.
I fully intend to share my findings and the documents with those interested.
Why can't you just give us the raw documents? Let the us the public make our own deductions. Show all of your work Steve. Not just a selective summery of your "findings". Who is your investigator by the way?
ReplyDeleteLL and Lorri,
ReplyDeleteThe fire chief has issued a very thought out response to Steve and was published on this blog, but you are still asking about the whether or not the leaks that Steve reported have been validated or untrue.
Is that tantamount to an admission that the Fire Chief has not set the record straight?
Lee, Lorri, LL,
Who knows better than the fire chief? Let's ask him. The city is the source of information. mmuir@cityofencinitas.org. Is this about getting to the bottom of this issue or a personal feud?
“Those incidents did not happen” is only 5 words.
Please don’t forget that Muir was asked about these incidents long before any of this was blog posted, and Steve was aware of the misconduct before the press conference and I’m pretty sure he didn’t mention any of this during the election. So, I’d guess LL would be happy he didn’t go drama on that during the election.
LL and Lorri,
I’m having some discretion on what gets posted online because I do not want to post anything that causes any future problems getting documents from the city. The city has released personal information before and used that as an excuse to pull a lot of information off the web. I still have not had time to go through it closely.
If you would like a copy I can arrange to it to you at some drop off or mailed, or something. Will you agree to write a summary of what is in the documents?
Lorri,
“[Steve] wrote me some pretty nasty emails when I told you I could do nothing about Orpheus”. You’ve been asked on the blog and by me about these emails. You have been upset with Steve for the emails, which I don’t understand your level of response. I’ve seen a lot of emotional emails to city officials and I was pretty surprised by the email that your daughter forwarded to me from your email address (according to your April 9th email to me), which is the email that you write of, no? Also, it is kinda funny that your 9:26 comment is related to some of Steve’s comments. But you were both off base, as there is no conflict of interest requiring recusal in yours or Gaspar’s situation.
If you think the email from Steve are germane lets post those up and have a discussion about them. You keep bring them up so they must be important. As with a lot of stuff sent to us that is not directly requested for posting we’ve used a lot of discretion on posting, with a few mistakes.
Lorri, because you are a public official (commissioner) and the email is about public business(parks) the email is a public document under the CPRA. It doesn’t matter if you get paid or not, you are a public official. Your email with the fire chief is also public record. Should we post that all up?
Don’t hit delete just yet, as I’ve done a records request on those emails. I want to know what private information Muir gave you about the incidents and about Steve. You have written that you know the facts (before the rest of the public got the information) and protected information about Steve. It seems that the city, and you, were very concerned about keeping the records private, unless it was information about someone you didn’t like.
Were you in close contact with your close friend the fire chief, via email or other means, when you wrote (and cc’d me March 30) that Steve’s family could be endangered by slow response times from emergency services?
Am I wrong about this, please explain because this is horrific that you would believe that our city would do that given how close you are with Muir?
Once again, please take some time to review the history and the documents released by the city and please report back to the blog as to what has happened here.
Starman, Give it a break. You’ve made your point.
LL,
ReplyDeleteLet me reiterate something. You are free to go to city hall and get a copy, thanks to Steve and Calaware and probably some shock waves from my case.
Why don't we get an account from the Fire Chief or Jerome. Jerome was very aggressive in his response to requests for information earlier.
I will bring you a copy. Will you give a summary of what is in it?
I can afford the fifteen bucks to get a report at City Hall and know how to get there K.C. All I am saying is: You want sunshine from the city but it seems it does not apply to you. If it is because you are not willing to harm those who are accused of misconduct and I'm not talking about the Chief, then I commend you. If you are cherry picking facts to support your agenda than it comes off as disingenuous and self serving.
ReplyDeleteLL,
ReplyDeleteThank you for the commendation.
I am glad you are familiar with how city hall works. I will offer again to have a copy brought to you. Perhaps you would be wiling to help scan the documents? There are more than a few pages.
I haven't had the time to do a bunch of things, and dramas like this don't help. For instance, last week the LA times has asked me to send me the digital documents for my case which I haven't had time to do and that will do that before comb through the FD stuff (there are lots of city/blog things that I just can't get to).
I do want sunshine for the city, which is the main reason I have followed the FD story. This blog is part of the new media, not a government entity. When I was a public official my response to public records request would come first.
Cherry picking. I'm not sure that I've reported out much of anything on this topic, OTHER than the history of how and when documents were not and then released to the public and that is not dependent on the content of the documents.
Few people are every going to read the stack of documents. I think I have been clear that I hope that you and Lorri will write a summary of what is in the stack and report back here which we will publish. Let's see, I want to get you two the documents and I want you to write an independent summary.
Have you posted or emailed to Muir? Is Muir cherry picking his responses. He's the government official. Why should we not find it odd that your don't want the GOVERNMENT officials to clarify what has happened? Have you asked anyone at city hall to address what did happen? If not, why not? Have you asked the city to post this online?
Stop with the strawman stuff. I am open with this. You can email me and we can find a way to get you a copy if you don't want to get yourself to city hall. You willing to help get it scanned and double checked for privacy violations?
@ LL
ReplyDeleteYou are a little sensitive about something. You must still be upset that Steve made sure the voters knew about Dalager's mistakes.
Steve didn't attack Muir after his post. Steve responded to Muir!
Shoot the messenger is the M.O. of the city insiders.
Steve should post the documents and Muir should do the same. Muir should deny incidents if they didn't happen. I wouldn't hold my breath for a denial. If the documents showed they didn't happen Lorri and Muir would have already posted them.
LL,
ReplyDeletePlease accept their offer of the documents.
If you don't, it makes you look like a shill for City Hall.
@ Kevin,
ReplyDeleteI have not made any point. I have asked Dr. Lorri a question.
What do you call it when the city withholds documentation about disciplinary action from the public?
What do you call it when the fire chief won't answer questions about misconduct in his department?
Lee- I have been advised by legal council to not post anything else related to this matter. My practice and reputation are beginning to be affected by both Kevin and Steve's allegations. I would love to share all that I know, however, it will have to be another time and another venue. If people would have put their real names on their posts and their emails, that might be a different story. I could written them individually. However, I can no longer do that. Believe what you want, as will everyone else. the truth may be completely different. As Bob Dylan once said "A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall" Have a good day.
ReplyDeleteDr. Lorri and Loser,
ReplyDeleteTake the offer to get the documents.
OMG! A lawyer that keeps people out of court. Dr. Lorri's lawyer must have told her to stop lying in public about people she doesn't like.
ReplyDeleteLorri,
ReplyDeleteI'm confused,
My allegations are: severe misconduct in the FD had taken place, Muir and city attempted to cover it up completely then, released a sanitized version of the misconduct and continues to cover up by not releasing all of the documents.
and with regards to dog parks, I only asked you what your opinion was of the conditions at Orpheus park as a park commissioner. You refused to answer.
Why are you making this so convoluted?
con·vo·lut·ed
(esp. of an argument, story, or sentence) Extremely complex and difficult to follow
* - its convoluted narrative encompasses all manner of digressions
Walker O-I have the documents, thank you.
ReplyDeleteFor all of you-My family is the most important thing in my life. My daughter was so distraught by the things posted she took it upon herself to send something. Not sure what. She is even more distraught that Kevin "outed" her in his last post on this blog. In all her years, I don't believe that she has ever gotten on to my email and sent something to Kevin or anyone else.
Why do I need an attorney- I am self employed-unlike both Steve and Kevin, who receive their incomes from we, the taxpayers. And Steve at least, will have every bit of a hefty pension as any fireperson in Encinitas. My patients, who often read this blog, are asking questions. It is their time and session and I don't take that away from them. However, I am, out of my own pocket, taking the time to explain what is happening. That takes time and all I get paid for is time and psychological expertise. Any of you who are self-employed know, it is difficult as best. Especially in these times, where people might need therapy but have lost their insurance. So, I am working pro bono (free) for some of them. I also assist in working with veterans coming back from war with Posttraumatic stress disorder. I do this because I care and I do not get paid, nor do I want to get paid. However, I have bills, as do you all. If you think about it, for those who often read this blog, how many times has Kevin and or Steve EVER harrassed someone as much as me? Not even Jerome gets this treatment. So I guess the bottom line is when anyone messes with my children, my husband or my practice, I will fight back with every tool available. if you don't like it, then be sure you have your facts so that they are publishable in any reputable source. I may still fight, but it will at least be even. So far, even the UT has seen fit not to get into this story. I know that because I asked the source.
Dr. Lorri,
ReplyDeleteWhat do the documents say?
Good one Starman. What is your real name? All will be revealed in time. No worries. Go surfing or whatever you do, and time will give you the answers.
ReplyDeleteTo the issue of cost per poo, I am surprised that no one has weighed in on the accounting side. I haven't seen the numbers, but I can guess that much of that cost is overhead - a portion of the employee's pay to do the job of refilling the poo bags. The fact is that unless there is actually a guy (Johnny poo bag) who will be laid off, the employee hours will just be reallocated to other tasks: emptying the trash, landscaping, etc. The bags probably cost a couple hundred dollars a year and that is what the city will save.
ReplyDeleteLorri,
ReplyDeleteLet's fix this. What has been written that is wrong or unfair and still needs to be corrected?
I personally would very much like to see this entanglement resolved and you happy and I think should agree that what is said about Steve should also be correct. I think you should also agree that information shared with one person in the public should also be made available by the the city to the rest of the public.
I don't want to be on anyone's shit list, not even Jerome's and for no reason yours.
Please have your attorney contact me.
I have looked at the document. It's available at the city to anyone who wants to pay for a copy. It's a lot of pages with each page with many redactions. This makes it difficult to read quickly because so many words are blacked out. In my opinion the editing is excessive, as it's not just names. Someone spent an enormous amount of time doing this.
ReplyDeleteMy conclusion is that the misconduct that Steve Meiche alleged is confirmed. The corrective action taken is also included. I have no way of knowing if any misconduct was omitted. I don't have any inside information. The disciplinary action taken seems mild to me in some cases where the misconduct could have led to a life-threatening situation. After all public safety is a very serious business and the firemen are well paid.
It's clear that the city went to some length to NOT release the document. The unwillingness of the city to release the Fire Department document and the Road Maintenance Report is troubling. Where's the transparency? Is the city hiding something?
First of all, I am not sensitive about Dalager. While I think "kitchen gate" was petty and stupid. The failure to disclose a loan from the developer was wrong and he had to go. He violated the public trust. I am on record as not voting for Dan in the last election. While he did do wrong, he did not derserve some of the vile things that were said about him. K.C. I have the right to take the Chief's response as good enough for me on the matter. This is America and we are innocent until proven guilty. That means the burden of proof of a coverup is on you and Steve. Why is it up to me to have to prove your right and the Chief is lying on this matter? I will go ahead and waste fifteen bucks and read it for myself to see if your claims of a coverup are true. This seems silly as cardiffian has said the document in question has already been redacted. Why can't this be put on the blog? Steve I am sorry for calling you a drama queen. It was uncalled for. I do not like all the drama and theatrics though. It divides the community and we all lose. Stay funky Leucadia.
ReplyDeleteTransparency should go both ways. These are VERY SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS and reputations are being called into question. As they say in the hood... You better come correct. The cherry picking comment was for Steve K.C. Who is your investigator Steve?
ReplyDeleteLL,
ReplyDeleteSteve offered to give you everything he had. What more do you want? Take the friggin' documents and quit whining!
I don't understand your obsession with posting the documents. If you want them on the Internet so bad, pick them up from Steve, scan them, and put them on the Internet.
And if you refuse to accept Steve's offer of the documents, just look at the facts we know already. Muir's statement acknowledges that lots of bad stuff happened, and Muir tried to cover it up until faced with a public records lawsuit possibility.
" The bags probably cost a couple hundred dollars a year and that is what the city will save."
ReplyDeleteNo. The bags and overhead cost 16 thousand dollars per year for Encinitas to keep Johnny poo bags in business. Whereas hiring instead Crappy Advertising to do the route, it would mean free. The difference between $16,000 and FREE is not a couple hundred dollars.
Inside source says the city buys a little over 350,000 bags a year. That's a lot of poo.
ReplyDeleteI can only speak for the two labs that I clean up after everyday and it is quite normal for each dog to crap at least two to three times per day. That's 28 to 42 piles of poo per week.
ReplyDeletelast year I requested the contract for the landscape company that cleaned Orpheus park. They amended the contract to include picking up the dog crap due to the chronic crap problem there.
ReplyDeleteFactor that into the total cost of dog parks.
350,000 bags!?!? That is a lot of poo. A 30 second Google check shows 700 bags for $18. So that is $9,000. There is your savings if the bags are refilled by an outside vendor. I have to look at Geico ads flying by while I sit on the beach and it doesn't save me any money. I can easily ignore these ads for $9,000. Sold to the only bidder.
ReplyDeleteLL,
ReplyDeleteYou take your dogs to the park three times a day to crap?
Starman, of coarse not. They crap at Orpheus once or maybe twice if we go before work at least two days a week. Pick up your dog's poop people. It's just plain rude not to.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDr. Lorri - are there multiple companies trying to provide poo bags? If there is no competition then there is no reason to postpone the decision waiting for competing bids. Contract for a year and let it be known that we will be open to competing bids next year. If it works I may start a company.
ReplyDeleteLemme get this straight. The city pays 9 grand for bags each year, then gives 16 grand to JPB to place them in the parks? Does that mean we'd save 25 K with a little ad on each dog poo poo bag pole?
ReplyDeleteWinston,
ReplyDelete$16k is what the city pays in total for poo bags to be at the park. I proclaimed that most of that must be overhead because bags are virtually free. The number 350k bags/year was thrown out and quick math said that the actual bags could cost as much as $9k at retail. Still $7k in overhead or something else. Whatever the split, apparently $16k is the poo bag cost.
That's a lot of poo.
ReplyDeleteFor this to be a surprise, you must either be blind or reside outside of Leucadia. There is dog crap everywhere. Between that and the non-stop barking, I've had enough. Best scenario would be to require a $1k per year license to own a dog in CA. They make our communities disgusting and they cost us large amounts of money. That needs to change.
1. Back to the 50,000ft level. Has Chief Muir addressed this issue? Did those things happen, according to the Chief? Why not save $15 and ask the Chief to clarify what has happened and what has not happened, without 150 pages of blacked out stuff, given your deference to the Chief. No comments for the Chief or the council, who is the pubic official?
ReplyDelete2. What are the incorrect things said about former Mayor Dalager. Did Steve say them?
3. This is America and we are innocent until proven guilty (in a court of law). I don't think anyone is saying toss them in jail without a trial? (check out http://www.theleucadiablog.com/2011/02/encinitas-elephant-located.html)
How can the public make any determination if the city won't share information about the misconduct? (like they did before Steve stood up with Calaware). Was it wrong of Steve to ask for the documentation?
What exactly is John Q public suppose to do when it gets credible leaks, including from top FD brass, of misconduct, then the chief obfuscates, the council goes silent or attacks back, and the city refuses to release any information?
You are right. These are serious problems and Steve tried to go through more discrete channels to have the issues clarified but he was rebuked. Do you think that should be recognized?
You used the word accusation. To me that implies that the evidence has not been looked at and the accused not given an opportunity to respond. The city has looked at the evidence. Don't you think it is bad that the chief has "addressed" this issue and for people who would defer to his statements what has happened is unclear? Is it still just an accusation if staff has been reprimanded for misconduct? (according to the Chief http://www.theleucadiablog.com/2011/06/encinitas-fire-chief-muir-address-issue.html)
4. A cover-up is an attempt, whether successful or not, to conceal evidence of wrong-doing, error, incompetence or other embarrassing information.
Conceal=The city refused to release the documents or give a clear response as to what has happened (which continues today and for some reason that seems okay to some people). Only after Calaware road into town on Steve's behalf (and showed that they would go to court in the Cummins case) did the city back down.
Embarrassing information=Chief Muir admits bad resulted in reprimands and "last chance" agreements (http://www.theleucadiablog.com/2011/06/encinitas-fire-chief-muir-address-issue.html).
Maybe that's not enough? What would be enough, LL? What constitutes an attempt to cover up in your book and how would the public "prove" it?
5. I think we will differ on one principle. I think the onus is on the government to be open with the public. Otherwise, forget it, game over.
Interested individuals such as yourself even drag their feet to do something as simple as get the prepared packet of documents that can answer many of your questions. It is a colossal step to expect the public to duplicate and then investigate all the potential doings of every level of government.
Just remember when you are reading that packet, there is no way that was going to be released if Steve had not pressed the issue.
The closed government approach to things also puts the public in an adversarial role with its government. Not good. It is real easy to fix, buy then you have to be honest.
Above, directed to LL
ReplyDeleteThere were at least 30 dogs at the park last night and as far as I can tell all of the owners are very diligent looking after their dogs. I did not see any stray poo. The only trouble in my view at the park is some do not do a good job of keeping their pets out of the play area. I see many dogs doing #1 on the playground.
ReplyDeleteI contacted Jim O’Grady, Interim Director of Parks and Recreation last week because the park was looking bad. Classes from Paul Ecke Central were going to use the park for field trips on their last week of school and I wanted to ensure that the park was clean and kids didn't have to dodge turds. He was very responsive and immediately had crews scrubbing the place down.
ReplyDeleteAlso, whenever I raise a stink about the condition of the park, word leaks out to the dog people, they step up their vigilance for a few weeks. Its impossible for the few to handle the turd load of many.
As far as the sand area, its indefensible.