NCtimes.com ENCINITAS: Council agrees to additional planning for streetscape project
In a unanimous vote, the council agreed to spend up to $85,900 for additional traffic studies, a fourth public workshop and some mailers or other publicity on the issue.
It is probably a good thing that we will have a look at what four lanes and no roundabouts would offer. It seems that we would not be able to have safe bike lanes, a tree canopy on the east side, or the parking oppertunities that the existing alternatives offer. There just is not space enough. We would also lose the safety and efficiency for cars and peds and esthetic benifits that roundabouts offer. I still have not heard an arguement, that makes sense, against roundabouts. I have hear people say they don 't like them, but as a speaker noted last night, just look at Leuc Blvd.. The only place you stop and wait is the stop sign and it is more dangerous for peds.
ReplyDeleteWe need to get some agreement or we will have things continue to get worse.
wait is the stop sign, and ped crossing is more dangerous there top.
I want to get some sort of agreement so we can start planting trees.
"The only place you stop and wait is the stop sign and it is more dangerous for peds"
ReplyDeleteBullshit!
There is more stopping now than there was before the roundabout.
Try entering from from a cross street sometime.
It now takes LONGER for the fire trucks to get from the station to Highway 101.
Roundabout safer for ped's? It is safer where the cars are at a complete stop, like at a stop sign or stop light!
Leucadia Boulevard has much less traffic than 101.
I have almost been hit by a car turning right when crossing on foot twice. I now only cross when no cars are anywhere near the intersection. That is the safe way to cross. It is now much less pedestrian oriented and cars rule the intersection.
Generally I'm not a naysayer, but I've been trying to guess at how this all could pan out.
ReplyDeleteI understand the different factions and their interests. After we pay to have another scheme drawn, one that presumeably includes 2 lanes North and no roundabouts, the glass and sandwich guys will be happy, but we really won't be any closer to acceptable compromise.
In the end, the City will be holding 3 pieces of paper with 3 different plans and a paid invoice for $385K. The plans will be packaged, a report written, sent off to Planning Commission who will study the plans, take testimony and try to come up with a compromise that pleases no one.
That decision will be appealed to the council by one of the shorted parties,and the council will decide to do what they wanted to do in the first place. After that, it'll be determined that we have no money to implement the plan and it will be shelved indefinately.
Pelz will get a big bag of money for making paper. The City will pay for 3 plans they can't use, Diane will eventually retire at 90% pay, more canopy trees will have to be removed, and Leucadia will remain unchanged.
And what are we citizens going to do about it, except bitch. At least Dru did something. And he did not get arrested at 10PM, which the sheriff could have done. Are there any people out there that believe in passive resistance, ie: Gandhi. Or do you really just want to complain? I am hoping it is the first, but I would bet on the second.
ReplyDeleteI hope to god that the lanes are going to be wider than 10 feet. A bus,parcel truck and a fire truck are 8' wide then add the mirrors and you have a recipe for disaster. Don't let the facts get in the way of the city planners. How come with all of the degrees on the walls in the city offices tha they farm out their work.
ReplyDeleteTo the poster who said...
ReplyDelete"There is more stopping now than before the roundabouts"
You can say that and think that, but that is, of course, not true.
You can see it being more efficient, you cam drive through them amd experience the improved efficient, you can read traffic studies that prove they are more efficient and you ignore the reality and just say roundabouts cause more stopping.
??????
Why
We do not need choke points (roundabouts) or single lanes anywhere on 101 in Leucadia.
ReplyDeleteThis is just another stupid idea that some loser or transplant came up with. Maybe those who want us to pay for more parking for their businesses should have code enforcement come out to their establishments and find out why parking is so bad. Fred, Charlie, the rest. Or maybe lets see how much they pay in property taxes or income taxes in that those who pay very high taxes will pay the tab for this folly. Or maybe an assessment district for those who want it so they can pay for it. Maybe an extra 20K per year per 100 feet of highway frontage. That would be a lot more fair than all of the residents of Encinitas paying for a few elitists.
Have you noticed "They are not listening?" Stop bitching a DO something.
ReplyDeleteI did something today, I removed the yellow "do not cross" tape that has been at the intersection for 3 months. Ugly and stupid. That was left for us by the idiots at NCTD. Well it's gone now and I'm happy about that, and you??
ReplyDeleteWould you guys be happy if the city bought a few ash trays for in front of Lou's and 454?
ReplyDeleteTax payer
ReplyDeleteJust saying roundabouts are choke points does not make it true. They are not choke points. They are just the opposite.
They are safer for car and pedestrians, can move more volume of traffic even at a slower speed and save time and money, better ecologically and offer options for attractive landscape.
You seem to not want trees planted on the east side and restore the canopy or safe bike lanes. NCTD IS NOT GOING TO PLANT ANY TREES ON THEIR PROPERTY. Four lane will not leave room for re establishing the canopy we are loosing.
Look at the big picture. Do you want to leave something better for our children or just clean up the dangerous pedistrian unfriendly unsafe raceway wih limited parking and a withered ecomomy and not have the revitalized tree canopy we fondly remember?
Parking is needed. Where does that parking come from with 4 lanes? This is not an elitist issue. It is a community issue.
To 4:21
ReplyDeleteEver been to downtown Encinitas?
It works there.
To the poster who said...
ReplyDelete"There is more stopping now than before the roundabouts"
You can say that and think that, but that is, of course, not true.
Why?
Are you new to the area? Hygia and Hymettus were free flowing before the roundabouts.
Please, share your studies with us.
If you google "are roundabout more effecient?"
ReplyDelete"Results 11 - 20 of about 443,000 for are roundabouts more efficient."
www.roundaboutsusa.com
www.novanewsnow.com/article-318446-Roundabouts-safer-more-efficient.
www.gtcmpo.org/Resources/Topics/Roundabouts.htm
guidemeridian.blogspot.com/2009/02/roundabouts-will-soon-be-reality-after
www.fcgov.com/traffic/eng-roundabout
www.terrain.org/articles/2/siegman
www.irmca.com/topics/roundabouts
www.irmca.com/topics/roundabouts
www.dot.state.mn.us/roundabouts
www.bukisa.com/articles/20991_how-to-drive-in-a-roundabout
www.takepart.com/blog/2008/12/31/roundabouts-more-fuel-efficient
www.lees-summit.mo.us/content/RoundAbouts
www.ourston.com/04a_Interchanges
www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/motorist/roaddesign/roundabout-transcript.htm
www.fhwa.dot.gov/resourcecenter/teams/safety/saf_7RND.pdf
www.mail-archive.com/puna-cdp-participants@hcrc.info/msg00695.html - 11k -
missionviejodispatch.com/2009/01/23/expert-recommends-mv-roundabouts-meeting-monday/ - 36k
www.oxnardpd.org/documents/How+a+Roundabout+Works.pdf
Why did you move here? Maybe because it is funky Leucadia, kinda like it still is. Lets not change it to like Bird Rock or La Jolla or even downtown. Does Karina, Roberto's, Kotija's, El Torito, Bamboo To You, super funky antique shops, Tool Shed, Mobil, Leucadia Donut, La Especial, Augie's House of Crab, Scotties, Royal Liquor, some super dive motels, (which have the same rights to exist and provide shelter for those less fortunate) Shatto, Pappagayo, Grateful Dog, Mozy, a bunch of chiropractic and yoga studios deserve improvements costing mega millions of dollars. Or are you trying to drive these people and businesses out? Just so we can be like Bird Rock. Sounds like the elite talking down to us but wanting us to pick up the tab.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't doubt some of the choke point lovers are behind having the eucalyptus trees removed so as to make it easier to have their folly.
Or google: are roundabouts safer for pedestrians
ReplyDelete1 - 10 of about 205,000 for "are roundabout safer for pedestrians?
www.hometownlife.com/article/20090329/NEWS02/903290371/1019 - 46k -
www.newurbannews.com/Roundabout%20safety.html - 10kwww.access-board.gov/research/roundabouts/bulletin.htm - 44k -
www.phillyburbs.com/news/news_details/article/363/2009/march/11/roundabouts-are-pedestrian-safe.html - 76k -
www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/SR539/TenMileBorder/roundabouts.htm - 23k -
www.iihs.org/research/qanda/roundabouts.html - 30k -
safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersections/roundabout_tri/roundabout_tri.pdf -
Your last sentence puts you into the"NUT" catagory.
What a great forum.
ReplyDeleteThanks to those who run it.
Something like 1.7 MILLION $ has been spent, according to the staff report, on Leucadia,"streetscape;"this includes the sidewalks.
ReplyDeleteOver 350,000 had been paid to Peltz and others, as contracted consultants, to draw up plans from A Street to just south of the Pannikin, only. This does not include the additional $85,000 STAFF asked for, not Peltz, if I can believe my own eyes, and ears, last night.
I don't think the Pannikin is going out of business. Cutting down that beautiful tree was necessary? That is some heavy Karma.
We don't need more "productions." It's like Peltz in putting on a Hollywood production, complete with explanations of mythology.
It's all PR for incumbents, so they can pat themselves on the back and say they are doing something when there is not funding for the actual construction, only the consultants and their extravagant plans. Just as there is no funding for the unwanted tunnels under the tracks.
Jerome Stocks tried to put the spin on that fiasco saying that it had been well VETTED at workshops, Planning Commission Meetings and Council Meetings. I was sitting in front of a couple that had been to all the workshops and hearings. Many or MOST people were ALWAYS against the concept of pedestrian tunnels.
We all know from the workshops for the Hall Property where residents did want some fields, but not an interregional sports complex, and some fields for picnicking, playing frisbee, etc, not dedicated to intercity sports leagues, that THE THREE MAN MAJORITY ON COUNCIL DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE NEIGHBORHOODS.
If someone complains, Dalager and Stocks just call us whiners, and say, "this is the way it's always been done," or as James Bond has stated publicly several times about the Brown Act, "if we were doing it wrong somebody would have sued." That's his logic. Unbelievable.
The City knows it's in bed with the District Attorney, and the DA will not bring any City in SD County to Court over Brown Act or Public Information Act violations. Although the Brown Act gives the DA the power to sue civilly, just to force the City to correct itself, the DA has unfettered discretion to decide it will only be concerned with Criminal lawsuits, not civil lawsuits for injunctive relief. Although the City is allowed to sue, civilly; private citizens are forced to foot the bill in suing the city, except when a private entity steps in, as the Jarvis Taxpayers Association did for us all re the illegal $5 dollar surcharge on our trash bills for what should have and now does come out of our general fund.
The City (three man majority on Council & City Attorney) counts on private individuals not having the stamina or resources to sue, so it can maintain it's position of being a BULLY and tyrant, really, sitting, with staff under the pressure of their paycheck, as JUDGE, JURY and EXECUTIONER, or judicial, legislative and executive branches, with NO CHECKS AND BALANCES.
Not hollering, but please, we are being led by our noses by three men who cannot see beyond their immediate gratification, like BOLTING DOWN THE SPEAKER'S DIAS, to cause discomfort to public speakers who would like some eye contact with the audience, not just Council, looking down on the public from on high.
Morgan Mallory, Charles Marvin, THERE ARE CHOKEPOINTS in roundabouts when there is traffic. The chokepoints, on 101 would be for those at cross streets. At Leucadia Blvd the chokepoints are for north and south traffic. On Hwy 101, it would be for people wanting to turn left or right onto 101, or crossing, east and west to Grandview, Beacons, or the beach La Costa? You tell me. I'm asking. We can't trust our own traffic dept., apparently or our own traffic commission to know the dynamics, that is why we are paying for an additional traffic consultant, in addition to more money to Peltz for another "Alternative 5" production. We should have had that alternative to begin with, and it's a real shame that staff can't come up with a straightforward plan, as it apparently was able to do for the Santa Fe Roundabouts and the two Leucadia Blvd. roundabouts.
Also, the project would cripple business when business has already slowed due to the nation's economic crisis. Plus the roundabouts WOULD ENCROACH ON PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS, such as Leucadia Glass; that is NO LIE. Peder Norby has also admitted there would be "encroachments," read GOVERNMENT TAKING'S OF PRIVATE PROPERTY.
Please, keep an open mind and use some logic. We could replace the trees taken out; we could fix the potholes; we could put in some u-turn turn lanes, temporarily reducing traffic to one lane, maybe? We could put in another stop sign at Grandview? That would slow traffic, and could help people coming from or going to the beach. We could restore the medians, do some "pop outs" to slow traffic. We could water the medians with reclaimed water by using city water trucks.
Someone from the fire department, now retired was TOTALLY AGAINST MORE ROUNDABOUTS.
Most residents KNOW THAT FIVE ROUNDABOUTS AND REDUCING NORTH BOUND TRAFFIC WOULD CAUSE MORE TRAFFIC ON SIDESTREETS, INCLUDING NEPTUNE AND VULCAN, NEAR PAUL ECKE CENTRAL SCHOOL.
The Chamber of Commerce and Mike Andreen did not "spread lies," Mr. Marvin and Mr. Mallory. The more than 1000 people who signed the petitions against roundabouts and eliminating one lane were NOT TOLD LIES. Mr. Marvin, as a retired attorney you should know that you should not be calling someone a liar at a public meeting without giving any evidence of the so-called "lie." Ray Yargeaux and Kathy and Rick Smith gave the petitions to staff, they stated. They were NOT part of the staff report and should have been.
Fortunately, your freedom of speech is protected, as is mine. Yes, God Bless us All, and you got what you wanted, $85,000 and more money for the 101 Mainstreet Association (before re City grants). L101 and you, CM, from what I was told by Larry Watt didn't mind the eleven additional trees removed along the North 101 Corridor beginning 3/21/09, when you and the City knew there would be no Council Meeting for anyone to protest at on the first Wednesday of this Month. You played us for April Fools.
The Sheriff was urged THROUGH THE CITY, by many, including some who would surprise you, to taser, or "stink bomb" Jru out of the tree. If someone had tried to stop the Eucalyptus trees from being cut down, he or she would have been arrested, I am sure, and taken to jail. Right or wrong, the City is prepared to bully anyone it can to make sure that its power is absolute.
Nuf said, I googled "roundabouts & death" and found results 1-trillion say that 11,111,111,211 time outa hundred roundabouts not more efficient for death:
ReplyDeletewww.hometownlifealmostobituaries.com/article/20090329/NEWS02/903290371/1019 - 46k -man negotiating roundabouts fails to die when car strikes sculpture in traffic calming circle, serious injuries
www.newurbannewsbizarreroundaboutnews.com/Roundabout%20safety.html - 10kwww.access-board.gov/research/roundabouts/bulletin.htm - 44k - woman ejected from convertible still trapped in roundabout cactus vegetation
www.phillyburbscheesecakebuzz.com/news/news_details/article/363/2009/march/11/roundabouts-are-pedestrian-safe.html - 76k - sorry, the post was eaten
www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/SR539/TenMileBorder/roundabouts.htm - 23k - we suspect you are infiltrating our ten miles, vut we hav roundavoots!
www.iihs.org/research/qanda/roundabouts.html - 30k - minniehaha organization no match for roundabout cowboys
safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersections/roundabout_tri/roundabout_tri.pdf - if you are here, you are desperate for Limbaughian disinformation, get a life.
How about those new big 35 mph signs in So. Carlsbad, anyone speed through there? No way ! Tree planting party? We're there ! Single lane? No way ! Those who live along 101 will never allow it, it's called Emergency Evacuation Suicide ! Most of the merchants will be bankrupt and gone before the 5th workshop thanks to Bush-Cheney and their energy/oil cabinet the past 8 years: thank your republican friends like Dalager, let their political heads roll !
ReplyDeleteDalager claims to be a democrat.
ReplyDeleteLynn--
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your willingness to speak up for the things you believe in, but maybe you should let that bolted-down-podium thing go. Speakers at that podium are there to address the council or commission at the dais, so it is not unreasonable that they would have bolted it down so it faced that direction. It wasn't a conspiracy. No need to rail against it every time. There's a camera that you are facing. Speak to the council, not to the audience. Make your point and be done. Try not to beat the proverbial dead horse. The podium is going to be bolted down in the direction it is now. Let's fry bigger fish.
Regarding the cost of planning for the L101 Streetscape, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I like Alternative 4 and will be advocating for it at the next workshop and at all the public meetings the City will have before the Council votes to decide on the direction to head. No matter, the road ahead will be long and winding.
I am voting for Alternative 4 as well. Its awesome like Leucadia.
ReplyDelete11:05
ReplyDeleteAngels pitcher Adenhart killed in Fullerton crash in a roundabout.
Er, eh, intersection.....
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/apr/09/ca-red-light-crash-040909/?zIndex=79989
I will give my opinion about the dais every time. Your opinion about my opinion is irrelevant to me, a.j.
ReplyDeleteIt was not put in the position it is now until Stocks was mayor. It was never bolted down, and was not facing the position it is now.
I will continue to "rail against the machine" whenever I decide I can be a positive influence for change. I am mainly speaking to the audience, because I know that the majority on Council are not open minded or open hearted enough to consider anything I say.
It's none of your business what I talk about. I can continue to object to the dais, but, as you well know, I focus on the agenda items, or my other issues for oral communications.
I didn't see you getting up there and speaking a.j., so you are just someone from the peanut gallery trying to distract from the fact that the City does NOT have checks and balances and acts as a bully in cutting down trees without sufficient notice or allowance for public participation in the process, without allowing the Environmental Commission to do its job.
The three man majority on Council would rather discourage and diss the messengers than address the issues. I looked at the archived webcast from 4/8/09, and Jerome Stocks is a complete hypocrite.
Stocks says that the minutes are action minutes, so the fact that Teresa Barth TWICE brought up that the tree policy and urban forestation policy manual should go before the Environmental Commission before it would go to Council to be finalized was NOT in the minutes, and should NOT be in the minutes, despite the public speaker's objections.
Then, in the same breath, he wants his "discussion point," to remain bulleted in the minutes, despite the fact that there also was NO CONSENSUS for any such inspection fee. Maggie brought her correction to the minutes up, by phone, stating that her opinion was there should be NO INSPECTION FEE for designating heritage trees. Jerome only wants action listed for those things that he "discusses," but if Teresa discusses something, well, that's not "action."
So, to repeat, Stocks thinks his ideas should be put in the minutes, when there is no consensus, but Teresa Barth's suggestion is to be left out of the minutes?
Such inconsistency is self-serving and completely hypocritical.
Lynn is correct about the speaker's stand. It was not bolted down and reoriented until Jerome Stocks was mayor. The change was made because several speakers had very effectively involved the audience in their presentation. The men on the council didn't like that.
ReplyDeleteStocks also started juggling the closed door session schedule at the same time. This was his attempt to limit public participation and evade compliance with the Brown Act. It's all very tawdry.
Many citizens have complained privately, but Lynn is the only one who has dared to go public. To borrow an epithet from Dan Dalager, this blog has some "whiners." Will they ever have the courage to go public in front of the council? Very few do, and we all know who they are. The three men on the council don't hesitate to vilify them. And the three men have their acolytes on this blog.
I never said that Lynn was "wrong" about the facts that she has been asserting. But the City Council chamber is well designed and has all the tools that anyone needs to make an effective presentation. Focusing on the Bad Man Jerome, the one responsible for BOLTING THE PODIUM TO THE FLOOR, is the quickest way to be labeled a Gadfly and marginalized. (That Lynn continues to harp on the concept of Separation of Powers, even though the City is organized to give all the power to the Council, is another reason she will be considered "out there".)
ReplyDeletePolitics is a game, perhaps even one of the most high stakes games that any of us will ever participate in. Right now the game is being dominated by Stocks/Bond/Dalager and I don't really care all that much for how things are shaking out on several fronts. But even though they vote to do this or that which I consider stupid, petty or ignorant, the game goes on. So I'm going to do what I can to convince them to see things my way on the next matter, which might include making a public comment or two at Council sessions, which I will not do pseudonymously.
Do not construe my comments to mean that Lynn should not get up and say whatever she wants. I am just suggesting that she might do a better job of recognizing when a fight is lost and move on, something I'm not always so good at. The podium is not going to be unbolted. Let it go.
The podium was never repositioned and bolted down until last year when Stocks became mayor. For several sessions it wasn't bolted down, and Lynn moved it back to its normal position. Stocks responded with the bolts.
ReplyDeletePower in this city ultimately rests with the citizens, not with the council. It is important that citizens speak both to the council and the public. After all the citizens can change the council. There's a possibility with a new majority on the council that the podium can be returned to its normal position. I don't think citizens should have to speak with their back to the audience. That's not the way it is at most cities.
I just returned from a trip to Central California. There are a number of roundabouts up there, and they work well. There is one at the University of Santa Barbara and I thought it flowed perfectly.
ReplyDeleteSERIOUSLY - who likes to stop at stop signs - are you kidding me?
Or do you like signaled intersections where you often have to wait for the light to turn green?
The roundabouts work great on Leucacia Boulevard. The stop sign needs to go.
11:43
ReplyDeleteLynn, get the walking mike and stand or sit wherever you like. But there should be a seat right next to Reiner (the A.V. guy) for guests to better layout what they want shown on the overhead. Right now it's very awkward, no matter who utilizes pictures with what they're talking about.