Beach and transit close, smart growth units are being auctioned in north county San Diego. These ocean view units are in the middle of a mixed use downtown with lots of shops, restaurants, and vibrant activities.
nothings selling. The 2nd half of 2009 will be bad, unemployment will spike and all the box homes with ARMs will increase in duress sales with values tanking. unemmployment will be over 15% in CA at the end of 2009. 2010 see unemployment in CA cap over 20% and will begin a depression equal to the 1930s. Mark my words and save your cash, the worst is yet to come. Anon.
These are a bad example of "smart growth". When you produce generic, unimaginative buildings like these you better hope someone else builds around them to hide them. On top of being a bad real estate market it's no wonder they aren't selling. Bad, bad architecture & urban planning.
If these were townhomes, 3 stories, you could still get a good density that contributes but doesn't overwhelm. People could walk from the street up to their houses.
Instead you get the standard 5 over 1 scheme you see here. Underground parking, no active frontage & long hallways and elevator rides.
Think of Main Street in Santa Monica, (not the promenade), or San Francisco's Marina District. Smart Growth will need a new name but the idea should be pursued.
What is the idea that should be perused? Is it a nice and inviting infrastructure and community?
I like downtown Encinitas and with some sprucing up I'll love Leucadia 101. Three stories doesn't ensure beauty or any sort of social objective other than overcrowding and hard to find parking.
Mozart probably drives a Hummer. The whole idea of smart growth is to maximize density and mixed use. Oside downtown is the pinnacle of smart development with super dense high rises and retail shops on the ground floor. Three stories is not enough to support the retail on the ground floor. You need to go higher to make a neighborhood truly sustainable and energy efficient.
Anon 9:35- I mostly agree with you in regards to Encinitas & Leucadia. However Oceanside has different goals and a different downtown. The idea is about getting away from the car and walking, (gasp!), and not about parking.
Walt- Actually my wife and I share a car, it's not a hummer. And, we live and work in our community.
Our 6 year old car has 50,000 miles after multiple trips to down Baja and across the Southwest.
Future development should be targeted to existing urbanized areas, yes, Leucadia too, near transit but mostly focused on walkability. Yes, I think there are far too many parking spaces as it is. And, I don't want to be insulting but I think the people demanding parking usually are a bit older and/or live in the suburban sprawl. This means they must drive in their car in order to go anywhere.
Smart growth, (as poorly executed as it can be like this example in Oceanside), is still a better solution than suburban sprawl, more freeways and destroying our few remaining natural areas and farmlands. The areas east of the 5 should focus on redeveloping their massive strip malls and big box centers to have destinations. Keeping it 2-3 stories provides a workable density that doesn't overwhelm streets with traffic and has the potential to make placeless suburbs a destination.
Leucadia 101, downtown Encinitas and Cardiff can be improved and made more walkable. Getting away from the car is an obvious solution to so many problems we face.
So the objective is to make a place a destination and get people to travel to the smart growth site? That seem totally backwards, unless you are a merchant that wants to bring in as many customers as possible.
It's not just the height. The overall bulk (length) is overwhelming. While a 3 story version of this may be appropriate on El Camino Real, it is certainly not appropriate anywhere else in Encinitas.
Walkability comes in many forms. Walkability to grocery stores and restaurants is realistic. Walkability to work in our dynamic, globalizing economy is going to be difficult. A company with 50-100 employees building stuff needs 10-20k sq ft. Not something most want where they live. Even if they did, how many such companies would be in walking distance?
Why not add pictures of our own Moonlight lofts, Leucadia Shores or soon to be Pacific Station? Those too will soon be bank owned and auctioned off. It’s only a matter of time until the developers stop making the loan payments when nothing sells at their break even point and they have no revenue stream.
Pop- There goes another Mickey P. Bad Speculation decision. Nothing more, nothing less.
I hope you like the finished product because regardless of who owns it, the buildings will be here for the next 100 years. This is way, the City’s planning or lack of planning efforts is so important. This is why Encinitas incorporated from the county in the first place.
I doubt Pacific Station will not bring the kind of returns to the investors as promised, and I'm not sure it will be a great think for downtown. The artists renderings make the building look cheap, but time will tell.
Smart Growth urban infill is pointless because all of our open spaces have already by been developed by sprawl. The concept was high density surrounded by open spaces. Too late for that now.
How are those smart growth Barrat America half built homes and new ghetto land selling up in Leucadia? Or How are those David Myers lots with the Kmart retaining walls selling off of Quail Gardens.....
Yeah, "smart growth" is needed just about as much as cancer growth. No Thanks.
Smart Growth should be a movement to remove the incumbents like Dan Dalager from office for his years of bad decisions. Adopt Term limits!
Funny comments about living near co-workers. Though I suppose you could site employment centers near transit as well.
And, there's no way you can equate the suburban homes by Barrat in Leucadia and the Quail Gardens project with smart growth. Those are both just regular growth as we know it based around the car.
Pacific Station is smart growth though I agree with another post that bulk is an issue in these projects as well.
And, as for water meters and no more growth; shouldn't we be looking at how we use our existing water supply? Encinitas grew last year at 1.1%, that's nothing. We're not growing, we're filling in. How we do this is critical. Why are we watering lawns that nobody uses and not recycling our water?
Are you serious? Arby's and Dunkin Doughnut with Whole Foods??? The management needs to decide on a target demographic for synergy - leading to more sales. I don't see people buy expensive food at Whole Foods stopping by for some Arby's or a Doughnut.
They need some high priced clothes, coffee (maybe Peet's), or shoes.
Or someplaces more yuppified that sells botox, facelifts, tummy tucks, lasix, electrolosis, diet plans, lyposuction, dental implants or medical marijuana - like the Reader ads. "Jon was clinically depressed, so his doctor recommended medical marijuana!" It's all about feeling good about ourselves, isn't it? In sort of a Baywatch way.
Stalinesque cement. Not quite what I would call "smart growth" more like "developer rape." Ugly and overpriced, with a barren dirt patch as a "view" soon to be developed into another tenament.
Where is that medical marijuana store going ot be? The City could make a lot of money by having one and taxiing it to death. And, the best part is, it would be pure.
These ocean view units are in the middle of a mixed use downtown with lots of shops, restaurants, and vibrant activities.
nothings selling. The 2nd half of 2009 will be bad, unemployment will spike and all the box homes with ARMs will increase in duress sales with values tanking. unemmployment will be over 15% in CA at the end of 2009. 2010 see unemployment in CA cap over 20% and will begin a depression equal to the 1930s. Mark my words and save your cash, the worst is yet to come. Anon.
ReplyDeleteNugatory nostradamian hypotheticals aside, that's a butt ugly property.
ReplyDeleteThese are a bad example of "smart growth". When you produce generic, unimaginative buildings like these you better hope someone else builds around them to hide them. On top of being a bad real estate market it's no wonder they aren't selling. Bad, bad architecture & urban planning.
ReplyDeleteIf these were townhomes, 3 stories, you could still get a good density that contributes but doesn't overwhelm. People could walk from the street up to their houses.
Instead you get the standard 5 over 1 scheme you see here. Underground parking, no active frontage & long hallways and elevator rides.
Think of Main Street in Santa Monica, (not the promenade), or San Francisco's Marina District. Smart Growth will need a new name but the idea should be pursued.
The central planners in the old Soviet Union would applaud these lovelies.
ReplyDeleteMozart,
ReplyDeleteWhat is the idea that should be perused? Is it a nice and inviting infrastructure and community?
I like downtown Encinitas and with some sprucing up I'll love Leucadia 101. Three stories doesn't ensure beauty or any sort of social objective other than overcrowding and hard to find parking.
Mozart probably drives a Hummer. The whole idea of smart growth is to maximize density and mixed use. Oside downtown is the pinnacle of smart development with super dense high rises and retail shops on the ground floor. Three stories is not enough to support the retail on the ground floor. You need to go higher to make a neighborhood truly sustainable and energy efficient.
ReplyDeleteIn our community, higher is not better. There has to be another way.
ReplyDeleteAnon 9:35- I mostly agree with you in regards to Encinitas & Leucadia. However Oceanside has different goals and a different downtown. The idea is about getting away from the car and walking, (gasp!), and not about parking.
ReplyDeleteWalt- Actually my wife and I share a car, it's not a hummer. And, we live and work in our community.
Our 6 year old car has 50,000 miles after multiple trips to down Baja and across the Southwest.
Future development should be targeted to existing urbanized areas, yes, Leucadia too, near transit but mostly focused on walkability. Yes, I think there are far too many parking spaces as it is. And, I don't want to be insulting but I think the people demanding parking usually are a bit older and/or live in the suburban sprawl. This means they must drive in their car in order to go anywhere.
Smart growth, (as poorly executed as it can be like this example in Oceanside), is still a better solution than suburban sprawl, more freeways and destroying our few remaining natural areas and farmlands. The areas east of the 5 should focus on redeveloping their massive strip malls and big box centers to have destinations. Keeping it 2-3 stories provides a workable density that doesn't overwhelm streets with traffic and has the potential to make placeless suburbs a destination.
Leucadia 101, downtown Encinitas and Cardiff can be improved and made more walkable. Getting away from the car is an obvious solution to so many problems we face.
at 300k +++ and high HOA's, they don't pencil out as rentals.
ReplyDeleteDumb investment if you ask me.
So the objective is to make a place a destination and get people to travel to the smart growth site? That seem totally backwards, unless you are a merchant that wants to bring in as many customers as possible.
ReplyDeleteIt's not just the height. The overall bulk (length) is overwhelming. While a 3 story version of this may be appropriate on El Camino Real, it is certainly not appropriate anywhere else in Encinitas.
ReplyDeleteWalkability comes in many forms. Walkability to grocery stores and restaurants is realistic. Walkability to work in our dynamic, globalizing economy is going to be difficult. A company with 50-100 employees building stuff needs 10-20k sq ft. Not something most want where they live. Even if they did, how many such companies would be in walking distance?
how many people that work in a big company want to live in the same neighborhood as all of their coworkers? No thank you.
ReplyDeleteExcellant point! Yuck, that would be awful, even for a 50-100 person company.
ReplyDeleteLol, I love the "vibrant activities" comment above the huge adjacent vancant parched lot with blackbirds strolling. No vision and bad timing.
ReplyDeleteWhy not add pictures of our own Moonlight lofts, Leucadia Shores or soon to be Pacific Station? Those too will soon be bank owned and auctioned off. It’s only a matter of time until the developers stop making the loan payments when nothing sells at their break even point and they have no revenue stream.
ReplyDeletePop- There goes another Mickey P. Bad Speculation decision. Nothing more, nothing less.
I hope you like the finished product because regardless of who owns it, the buildings will be here for the next 100 years. This is way, the City’s planning or lack of planning efforts is so important. This is why Encinitas incorporated from the county in the first place.
Pacific Station is only 36 million in debt. It should be easy to dig out of that hole.
ReplyDeleteI'm reserving judgement on Pacific Station. It seems too big for Old Encinitas, but Whole Foods has me excited!
ReplyDeleteWhole Foods aka Whole Lotta Dough...won't shop there for staples even if they carried them.
ReplyDeleteI doubt Pacific Station will not bring the kind of returns to the investors as promised, and I'm not sure it will be a great think for downtown. The artists renderings make the building look cheap, but time will tell.
ReplyDeleteThey can have their Whole Foods store, but why not add some sizzle to the name. Maybe call it "Community Market" or something.
ReplyDeleteSmart Growth urban infill is pointless because all of our open spaces have already by been developed by sprawl. The concept was high density surrounded by open spaces. Too late for that now.
ReplyDeleteSan Diego County and specifically north county have way to many people for our available water and healthy open space for native critters.
ReplyDeleteThe only smart growth is for people to leave the area. Any more dwellings and water meters just makes the condition worse.
Never vote for an incumbent, the career politicians are ruining America.
How are those smart growth Barrat America half built homes and new ghetto land selling up in Leucadia? Or How are those David Myers lots with the Kmart retaining walls selling off of Quail Gardens.....
ReplyDeleteYeah, "smart growth" is needed just about as much as cancer growth. No Thanks.
Smart Growth should be a movement to remove the incumbents like Dan Dalager from office for his years of bad decisions. Adopt Term limits!
Funny comments about living near co-workers. Though I suppose you could site employment centers near transit as well.
ReplyDeleteAnd, there's no way you can equate the suburban homes by Barrat in Leucadia and the Quail Gardens project with smart growth. Those are both just regular growth as we know it based around the car.
Pacific Station is smart growth though I agree with another post that bulk is an issue in these projects as well.
And, as for water meters and no more growth; shouldn't we be looking at how we use our existing water supply? Encinitas grew last year at 1.1%, that's nothing. We're not growing, we're filling in. How we do this is critical. Why are we watering lawns that nobody uses and not recycling our water?
What about your project? How is it smart growth?
ReplyDeleteBeside Whole Foods, what other stores are planned?
ReplyDeleteI know Arby's and Dunkin Doughnut have signed.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure about the 99 Cent Store.
It won't be 3 stories in the El Camino Real corridor. It will be 4-7 stories. The city has already admitted this. This is called medium height.
ReplyDeleteAnd rumors are that Moonlight Lofts is going into bankruptcy. Will Pacific Station follow after completion?
Arby's, Dunkin' Donuts and a 99cent store?! Quality!
ReplyDeleteCount me in for shopping!
We need another Starbucks and McDonalds or what about a mini-Wallmart!
ReplyDeleteAre you serious? Arby's and Dunkin Doughnut with Whole Foods??? The management needs to decide on a target demographic for synergy - leading to more sales. I don't see people buy expensive food at Whole Foods stopping by for some Arby's or a Doughnut.
ReplyDeleteThey need some high priced clothes, coffee (maybe Peet's), or shoes.
Or someplaces more yuppified that sells botox, facelifts, tummy tucks, lasix, electrolosis, diet plans, lyposuction, dental implants or medical marijuana - like the Reader ads.
ReplyDelete"Jon was clinically depressed, so his doctor recommended medical marijuana!" It's all about feeling good about ourselves, isn't it? In sort of a Baywatch way.
Sounds good, though maybe not for the Whole Foods crowd.
ReplyDeleteStalinesque cement. Not quite what I would call "smart growth" more like "developer rape." Ugly and overpriced, with a barren dirt patch as a "view" soon to be developed into another tenament.
ReplyDeleteWhere is that medical marijuana store going ot be? The City could make a lot of money by having one and taxiing it to death. And, the best part is, it would be pure.
ReplyDeleteIt's proposed to be called Party Pharm at 666 S. Coast Hwy 101. I can hear Jerry Falwell complaining about the address now.
ReplyDeleteJerry Falwell has been dead for a couple years now. What an evil, hateful person he was.
ReplyDeleteChong-are you serious?
ReplyDeleteDoes a bear spit in the woods? (For JP's improved, cleaner blog)
ReplyDeleteDoes a Beaver eat rugs?
ReplyDeleteNo. Beavers eat bush.
ReplyDelete